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Hello,
I want to redo and compare an episode that i have ripped from both the DVD (pal) version and Bluray (24p) disc.
Now, i know duration is affected by a. Different framerates 25 </VS 24 , and B. VFR vs CFR ...
both episodes have CFR & progressive (not interlaced), so that can't be it.. Yet, when recoding BD 24 → 25fps, the playtime from the BD episode still exceeds of that of the DVD version by whooping 15 seconds !?
Again, iam talking about tv episodes (1970's), not a movie (i.e: DC, uncut ) !
What could be causing such a time difference beside of that wich i have mentioned.
But more important, how do you shift and fix that ?  ?
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Intros, outros, cuts, Credits, offen different when using different media releases.
You should use some NLE Tool to compare the versions. Hybrid isnNot suited for this.
Cu Selur
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(24.12.2023, 15:00)Selur Wrote: Intros, outros, cuts, Credits, offen different when using different media releases.
You should use some NLE Tool to compare the versions. Hybrid isnNot suited for this.
Cu Selur
iam not talking about intro's and outros or credits being the problem.. But the problem for me now, lies in between.. .. Only cut's / edits can cause this, but iam talking about an old tv-serie that has been restored / remastered to bluray..
Could it be, do uncut/ director's cuts exist for tv-series / episode discs releases ?
Thanks for the tip.. ill look into that nle tool..
EDIT: Are you talking about a video editor tool? Can you provide me with an link , so i have an idea to wich tool exactly you are refering.. Also, what do i have to look for when you say "compare against eachother" ?
You see, the hd version i possess is an import only for my country without subtitles. And i like to use and convert the Subs from my dvd source to the BD video format i own..
And THATs the problem... the runtime from the two even when framerate matches isn't right for some reason! And not because of intro (begin) and outro's/credits (end) because that you can manipulate by adding delay's to subtitles..
The problem lies in between, like i said!!
cheers,
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Yes, NLE = non linear editor tools with timelines in which you can drag&drop multiple sources (audio&video) and rearrange them.
AviUtl, Davinci Resolve, Adobe Premiere Pro, Vegas Pro, are probably which most users use and where you can find tutorials online.
https://www.videohelp.com/software/secti...s-advanced
Simply putting the video stream above each other should easily show where there are differences.
Cu Selur
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(25.12.2023, 15:51)Selur Wrote: Yes, NLE = non linear editor tools with timelines in which you can drag&drop multiple sources (audio&video) and rearrange them.
AviUtl, Davinci Resolve, Adobe Premiere Pro, Vegas Pro, are probably which most users use and where you can find tutorials online.
https://www.videohelp.com/software/secti...s-advanced
Simply putting the video stream above each other should easily show where there are differences.
Cu Selur
Have checked the frames of both.. And sure enough.. it's identical to eachother.. nothing added, or cut !
And the subtitles that I was able to visually sync with the bd stream confirms that.
I mean, each spoken dialogue corresponds to the number of subtitles. NOTHING MORE, nothing less ..
Yet, i just can't simple convert the dvd subs from 25 to 24.. with or without stretched delay to match a/v of the bd source.. if you know what i mean..
That doesn't make sense..
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If your sources are identical frame by frame, the only difference should be the playback speed and thus their playback length should differ.
If adjusting the playback speed (no video reencoding required) does not produce the same playback length, then the used scaling factor is wrong.
Quote:Yet, i just can't simple convert the dvd subs from 25 to 24..
Why? I mean Hybrid can't do it iirc., but in theory one would just need to adjust the timings in the .idx file of the idx/sub subtiltes.
Cu Selur
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(25.12.2023, 19:04)Selur Wrote: If your sources are identical frame by frame, the only difference should be the playback speed and thus their playback length should differ.
If adjusting the playback speed (no video reencoding required) does not produce the same playback length, then the used scaling factor is wrong.
hmm.. i haven't checked that ↑... I will check that for sure.. results could be interesting .
But, what on earth could cause that on retail discs ?
(25.12.2023, 19:04)Selur Wrote: Quote:Yet, i just can't simple convert the dvd subs from 25 to 24..
Why? I mean Hybrid can't do it iirc., but in theory one would just need to adjust the timings in the .idx file of the idx/sub subtiltes.
Cu Selur
Why? Isn't that obvious? if the a/v output is 24fps .. and the source 25fps.. Not only a/v needs to be converted to match the framerate → speed/scaling factor.. right
I mean, i have done this for years with DVD & BD sources all the time, to sync anything..
Btw, i don't just convert Retail subs to match speed, but also Resolution 720*576 → 1080p
Cheers,
TD
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Quote:hmm.. i haven't checked that ↑... I will check that for sure.. results could be interesting .
?? you wrote:
Quote:Have checked the frames of both.. And sure enough.. it's identical to eachother.. nothing added, or cut !
=> this should mean each frame (ignoring playbackspeed) shows the same content (just in different resolutions)
Quote:Btw, i don't just convert Retail subs to match speed, but also Resolution 720*576 → 1080p
Those are different steps. One changes the info in the timings in the idx file while the other changes the images.
Quote:But, what on earth could cause that on retail discs ?
Different cuts&co are normal for DVD and Blu-ray releases, especially if they target different regions of the world.
Quote:Why? Isn't that obvious? if the a/v output is 24fps .. and the source 25fps.. Not only a/v needs to be converted to match the framerate → speed/scaling factor.. right
If just the playback speed differs, for the video only the playback speed needs to be adjusted.
Sure, there are tons of ways to do norm conversions (PAL <> NTSC etc.), but then the frame count and content differs.
Cu Selur
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(25.12.2023, 19:56)Selur Wrote: Quote:Btw, i don't just convert Retail subs to match speed, but also Resolution 720*576 → 1080p
Those are different steps. One changes the info in the timings in the idx file while the other changes the images.
You don't say.. Hence i wrote 480p → 1080p 
(25.12.2023, 19:56)Selur Wrote: Quote:But, what on earth could cause that on retail discs ?
Different cuts&co are normal for DVD and Blu-ray releases, especially if they target different regions of the world.
That's just it !? both DVD & bd release are normal editions.. Nothing special.. i.e: DC, Uncut.. E.E etc.. etc..
Fyi, i never have seen special editions for episode discs, only movies! ↔ Apart from the extra features that are onboard ..
(25.12.2023, 19:56)Selur Wrote: Quote:Why? Isn't that obvious? if the a/v output is 24fps .. and the source 25fps.. Not only a/v needs to be converted to match the framerate → speed/scaling factor.. right
If just the playback speed differs, for the video only the playback speed needs to be adjusted.
Sure, there are tons of ways to do norm conversions (PAL <> NTSC etc.), but then the frame count and content differs.
Cu Selur
You lost me there !?
When you talk about playback speed i think about playback → Speed Rate (1x, 2x...) , and to me thats not the same as duration/play length wich is defined by the framerate in this case
Right !?
Also, when you change playlength of video wich is often the result of the framerate change, audio and all other tracks need to follow to match same duration , isnt it?
I don't get what you mean , My Royal Majesty Sir Selur 
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Quote:You lost me there !?
When you talk about playback speed i think about playback → Speed Rate (1x, 2x...) , and to me thats not the same as duration/play length wich is defined by the framerate in this case
Right Huh !?
Playback speed = frame rate
duration = playback length in seconds = number of frames / frame rate
if you have the same amount of frames, the frame rate (playback speed of the frames) defines the duration (playback length).
Quote:That's just it !? both DVD & bd release are normal editions.. Nothing special.. i.e: DC, Uncut.. E.E etc.. etc..
Normal DVD editions and normal blu-ray editions still can differ a lot, especially if they are created in different points in time.
They could be created from different masters to work with.
Nowadays if you create a DVD and Blu-ray version you often have the same high quality master, but this was not always the case.
Quote:Also, when you change playlength of video wich is often the result of the framerate change, audio and all other tracks need to follow to match same duration , isnt it?
Yes, audio will need to be changed if you change the playback speed.
But that is another thing. First, you need to know how the video content differs.
Just comparing subtitles does or audio streams not say much.
Cu Selur
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