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Converting h264 1080p 4.2.0 8 bit to 4.2.2 10 bits for color grading using Hybrid! - Printable Version

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Converting h264 1080p 4.2.0 8 bit to 4.2.2 10 bits for color grading using Hybrid! - dogmydog - 06.09.2021

Hello everyone,

I'm trying to use Hybrid to convert an interlaced h264 1080 60i 4.2.0 8 bit to 1080 60p 4.2.2 10 bits before color grading.

Here is a test sample.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15AAR2ECHRB_zuOJTPxahsC6P954Xl80h/view?usp=sharing

Should I do it, or it is not worth the effort?
If it is worth it, what would be the best codec and settings?

I'm using Windows 10 x64 with NVIDIA 1660 on a Ryzen 7 2700 with 32GB ram.
Thank you so much, this software is incredible!


RE: Converting h264 1080p 4.2.0 8 bit to 4.2.2 10 bits for color grading using Hybrid! - Selur - 06.09.2021

Quote:Should I do it, or it is not worth the effort?
Hard to answer since the scene has no horizontal movement so it's hard to tell wheter it's really interlaced.
Just from that scene I would guess that the camera that took it just saved progressive content and flagged it as interlaced. In that case bob deinterlacing would only reduce the quality.
Assuming the content is really interlaced (load a clip with horizontal movement in Hybrid, overwrite the scantype to progressive and check if you can spot combing artifacts to be sure), than deinterlacing using QTGMC makes sense assuming you want to create progressive content.

Quote:If it is worth it, what would be the best codec and settings?
No clue about best, but what makes sense would be:
  • for deinterlacing: QTGMC + Bob + preset slower (or very slow)
  • any lossless format the tool you use for color grading supports

Cu Selur


RE: Converting h264 1080p 4.2.0 8 bit to 4.2.2 10 bits for color grading using Hybrid! - dogmydog - 06.09.2021

Dear Selur, thanks for the quick reply!
The camera records only 60i log footage, so it is definately interlaced.

My question is if there is a way to enhance the color space recorded in camera from 4.2.0 8bit to at least 4.2.0 10 bit or higher.

If I use vapoursynth with any other noise reduction filters, will I be able to improve room for color correction?
If that is possible, which filters should I use?

Thanks again!


RE: Converting h264 1080p 4.2.0 8 bit to 4.2.2 10 bits for color grading using Hybrid! - Selur - 06.09.2021

Quote:My question is if there is a way to enhance the color space recorded in camera from 4.2.0 8bit to at least 4.2.0 10 bit or higher.
If you set the output to be 10bit it Hybrid will encode it to 10bit, it's not really an enhancement, just a conversion.


Quote:If I use vapoursynth with any other noise reduction filters, will I be able to improve room for color correction?
If that is possible, which filters should I use?
Nope, don't see how removing noise cloud improve room for color correction. In general noise reduction, (contrast) sharpening, line darkening and similar might help with the general appearance of a clip, but usually do not really change color corrections assuming the clip isn't riddled with artifacts.

Cu Selur


RE: Converting h264 1080p 4.2.0 8 bit to 4.2.2 10 bits for color grading using Hybrid! - dogmydog - 06.09.2021

Fantastic, thank you so much for the support!
I'll continue to use Hybrid to improve my conversion skills. Cheers from Rio,


RE: Converting h264 1080p 4.2.0 8 bit to 4.2.2 10 bits for color grading using Hybrid! - shijan - 06.09.2021

You can improve visual quality a little bit but don't expect that video will behave like real 10 bit 422 during color correction.

There is a trick (especially useful if your source is SD) -
Deinterlace
add Deblock (if compression is poor)
SMDegrain (you can try other temporal Noise Reduction filters)
DeBand - GradFun3Mod
NNEDI3 upscaling to 1080p or to UHD
add CAS sharpen
add film grain
export to 10 bit 420 (or 422 if you like).

This will smooth problematic "empty" chroma areas and partially "rebuild" image.


RE: Converting h264 1080p 4.2.0 8 bit to 4.2.2 10 bits for color grading using Hybrid! - Selur - 06.09.2021

" improve visual quality " != "improve room for color correction" Wink

Cu Selur


RE: Converting h264 1080p 4.2.0 8 bit to 4.2.2 10 bits for color grading using Hybrid! - shijan - 06.09.2021

It is not really the same.

Real life example:
Quality 10 or 12 bit bit color source directly form camera usually have huge amount of details and color data hidden in the shadows. You can recover and manipulate those details during color correction.

Video upscaled from 8 bit 420 to 10 bit 422 will not have hidden details in the shadows. You will see only clipped pure black fill in the shadows, because those details where already clipped from start by 8 bit codec.

Same time if you smooth, "rebuild" and upscale chroma - you will have more room for color correction. Less noise artifacts will pop-up, less banding. This is possible.


RE: Converting h264 1080p 4.2.0 8 bit to 4.2.2 10 bits for color grading using Hybrid! - dogmydog - 09.09.2021

(06.09.2021, 17:24)shijan Wrote: You can improve visual quality a little bit but don't expect that video will behave like real 10 bit 422 during color correction.

There is a trick (especially useful if your source is SD) -
Deinterlace
add Deblock (if compression is poor)
SMDegrain (you can try other temporal Noise Reduction filters)
DeBand - GradFun3Mod
NNEDI3 upscaling to 1080p or to UHD
add CAS sharpen
add film grain
export to 10 bit 420 (or 422 if you like).

This will smooth problematic "empty" chroma areas and partially "rebuild" image.

Wow, tysm @shijan!
The camera canon C100 actually records the video in 4:2:0 8bit h264 in 30mbps in a very high quality.
Here is again the example: https://drive.google.com/file/d/15AAR2ECHRB_zuOJTPxahsC6P954Xl80h/view

But when I start to color grade it in Adobe Premiere, i notice a lot of introduced "artifacts".
Most users state that it is more of a Adobe Lumetri program and Da Vinci Resolve should color correct it well. 

To improve this, most users recomend buying an external recorder, since the camera outputs 4:2:2 uncompressed, but it is still 8 bit.
So since I was able to upscale the footage to 4k using Hybrid having interesting results, I was wondering if this could improve my color depth as well.

Again, thanks for the attention given to this matter! I'm always eager to learn.
Cheers from Rio,


RE: Converting h264 1080p 4.2.0 8 bit to 4.2.2 10 bits for color grading using Hybrid! - shijan - 09.09.2021

It just depends of apps. Some apps use native bit depth and gamma of source video and process it in 8 bit if source is 8 bit. Other apps (like Ravinci Resolve) upconvert internally any source to 32 bit depth and process it with better quality. Have no idea what is going on inside Premiere because i don't use it.

I see your example is in Log. It is worst possible scenario for 8 bit because low depth 8 bit tonal data is stretched to even more low bit depth during transformation to normal Rec709 gamma.

Here is what you can do to improve your source further:

If source is really interlaced use customized QTGMC "Very Slow" or "Placebo"
Switch to custom settings
Source Matching: 2xrefined. It will give you more detailed deinterlacing. It is ok to use it with HD sources from modern cameras like yours.
Sharpness 0, to avoid new additional halos.
Final Temporal smoothing 2 or 3 will clean up noise.

(Optional) DeBlock - QED (may help a little bit to remove some codec artifacts)

(Optional) DeGrain - SMDegrain Temporal Radius 2 or 3 will clean up even more chroma noise artifacts.

(Optional) DeBand - GradFun3Mod will fill too empty with fine patterns to avoid banding.

(Optional) In the end you may try to add AddGrain - GrainFactory3 and adjust it to minimal size to bring back some "breathing" to the footage and mix pixel structure a little bit.

Some static chroma artifacts like moire and aliasing are generated by camera sensor itself and near impossible to remove. Spartial Chroma Noise reduction may help a little bit. 

Optional filters (especially SMDegrain) will slowdown transcoding a lot.


By the way, export to 10 bit ProRes 422HQ should be way faster than to 10bit x265 and will behave way faster and smoother on timeline during editing without need of any proxy or background render.