[HELP] H.265 + Hybrid + Adobe Premiere Elements 2021

[tomek398]

Hybrid Version: 2023.03.17.1
Windows 10

I have a problem when using files encoded to H.265 with Hybrid in Adobe Premiere Elements 2021 (APE2021)
At first, I'd like to point out that this is not Hybrid specific problem as I have similar issues when using Handbrake and Shutter encoder as well. 

Source file comes from GoPro8 (4K H.265 60fps) and it works in APE2021 without any issues. No problem at all. 
When I re-encode it with AviDemu it works in APE2021 as well. No issues.  

However, if I use Hybrid (or HandBrake or Shutter Encoder) to encode to H.265  (both: software and NVEnc) I have problems after importing such files to Adobe Premiere Elements 2021.  I can import such videos and place them on the timeline, but they quickly make APE unresponsive.   
(I also tested it with Adobe Premiere Elements 2023 Trial version and the problem is still present)

I will send sample files and debug file in Private Message. 

I'm not suggesting that there is some issue with Hybrid, but maybe there is some option that I should use to make H.265 files encoded with Hybrid fully compatible with APE. I tried to get some support at Adobe Premiere Elements forum but nobody was able to help. 

I did plenty of tests with different encoder setting and it seems that they are not affecting that problem. Maybe there is something wrong with mp4 format.

I captured this video to show the problem: 
https://youtu.be/LDJjbHz71Ww

[Selur]

Not at a computer atm., so can't really say much.
I assume you got the extension APE needs to handle H.265 otherwise it probably won't open H.265 at all.

Since Avidemux reencodes work, have you simple compared what Mediainfo reports about the files?
(iirc Avidemux should use x265 too, so there should be infos about the encoding settings)
If it's a mp4 muxing issue, try whether it makes a difference if you tell Hybrid to use ffmpeg for mp4 muxing. (Config->Container->...; there are additional option in that tab which could influence compatibility.)

Things like gop size, multi references, HEVC branding (avc1, ...) can also make a difference.

Cu Selur

[tomek398]

Posted by Selur - 2 hours ago
Not at a computer atm., so can't really say much.
I assume you got the extension APE needs to handle H.265 otherwise it probably won't open H.265 at all.

Yes, and APE can open all H.265 and I can place them on the timeline, however some of them works without any issues (GoPro files, encoded by AviDemux) and some other are causing issues (encoded with Hybrid, HandBrake, Shutter Encoder). 

I have to idea why. 

I have hundreds of video files recorded with GoPro 8 at 100MBit. They take a lot of space. I'd like to encode them to ~30Mbit to H.265 with NVEnc. Loss of quality is acceptable for me. At the same time I'd like to have an option to edit those files in APE in the futer if needed. At the moment I can't if I use Hybrid, Handbrake, Shutter. I could use AviDemux but it doesn't have user friendly batch conversion. 

Hybrid would be perfect as it has many configuration options for NVEnc.

Since Avidemux reencodes work, have you simple compared what Mediainfo reports about the files?

Yes, I've tried to compare MediaInfo between original file (GoPro), AviDemux and Hybrid/HandBrake/Shutter bit I didn't find anything which would help me to understand what is going on. 

Avidemux should use x265 too, so there should be infos about the encoding settings

I used NVEnc for encoding in AviDemux and video files work with no issues in APE2021

If it's a mp4 muxing issue, try whether it makes a difference if you tell Hybrid to use ffmpeg for mp4 muxing. (Config->Container->...; there are additional option in that tab which could influence compatibility.)

Things like gop size, multi references, HEVC branding (avc1, ...) can also make a difference.

 Thank you. I'll try to test those options and will let you know.

---

I tried 4 options (attached) and all of them are causing problems in APE. 

In most cases I can play video files after putting them on APE timeline, however after moving the timeline marker a few times, the APE becomes unresponsive. There is no error message. It is not crashing. It just stopes responding and I need to kill the process in order to close the app. 

Number of combinations of various options in enormous so I can't check all of them. At the same time I don't have enough knowledge to fix that problem myself.

[tomek398]

I spent a few hours testing various options and it seems that size of the GOP can fix the problem. 

Everything works well is if set GOP to 100. 

Here are the settings which (so far) are NOT causing problems in APE2021

I don't of 100 is the best number and why everything works when I set it to 100. 
I also don't know what means when GOP is set to 0 (default value)

I need to do more reading about it. But, at least, everything seems to work now.

[Selur]

0 means OpenGOP encoding, but especially older tools often do not properly support it.

Cu Selur

[tomek398]

0 means OpenGOP encoding, but especially older tools often do not properly support it.

Thank you. Is it possible to set OpenGOP and define max length of GOP?

[Selur]

No, that doesn't make sense.
First hit on google explains what open gop and closed gop mean a bit more detailed:
https://streaminglearningcenter.com/blog...-know.html

Cu Selur

[tomek398]

Thank you. I read it. I could be very wrong, but as far as I understood that article, openGOP means that frames can refer to frames outside their GOP and I'm OK with it.

I also read this article:
Closed GOP and Open GOP - Simplified Explanation - OTTVerse

Under the section: What Is An Open GOP? they show openGOP which has some length. I just don't understand why max length of GOP can't be defined in similar way to closedGOP. Each GOP has its length so why we can't define max length?

[Selur]

In theory, it is possible, but no encoder I know of supports this.
It would complicate things quite a bit in 1-pass encoding (I think encoders could do this in 2pass encoding).
It would require that the rate algorithm do more analysis and change how caching works in most implementations. (which is a no-go for 'simple' hardware encoders)
For 1pass encoding, this could add significant delays.

Cu Selur

[tomek398]

Thanks for explanation. I will stick with closedGOP since Adobe Premiere Elements seems to be unable to edit openGOP H.265 files.