25fps to 24fps sudden fail !

[ToiletDuck]

hello,

Since hybrid 23.12.10.1 , i have a/v sync issues and video slow motion behaviour when doing an framerate conversion 25fps (progresive) → 24 fps !

I have used an old custom profile that i have created in the past and alway's have worked untill now !  
Have checked the settings at the audio base, and everything seems to be correct.

Change speed is checked and set to Decimals 25.000 to 24.000 , Pitch correction enabled.

I haven't changed anything significant in the settings that would explain this!
  
Also, hybrid crashes right at the start of a AC3 (not eac3) encode .



Debug is in the attachement..

[ToiletDuck]

I have upped an test sample for you to try out HERE 

Even though the clip has an CFR , no matter what settings i use.. (i.e: reaing input timecodes, forced CFR, Scale to output framerate etc...) iam unable to create an succesfull a/v syncronized 50/25fps (PAL source) to 24Fps result for some ackward reason !

One filter setting that possible may fix this a/v sync issue is → SsRestore ...

Cheers,
TD

[Selur]

Looking through the debug output I see that the audio first got extracted using:

"C:\Program Files\Hybrid\64bit\mkvextract.exe" tracks "D:\TEMP FOLDER\test.mkv" 1:"D:\TEMP FOLDER\iId_22_aid_0_lang_en_2023-12-17@04_04_31_1410_01.ac3"

then got cut with delaycut using:

"C:\Program Files\Hybrid\64bit\delaycut.exe" -fixcrc fix -o "D:\TEMP FOLDER\iId_22_aid_0_lang_en_2023-12-17@04_04_31_1410_02.ac3" -i "D:\TEMP FOLDER\iId_22_aid_0_lang_en_2023-12-17@04_04_31_1410_01.ac3"

and then the audio processing crashed when calling:

C:\Program Files\Hybrid\64bit\ffmpeg.exe" -y -threads 8 -loglevel fatal -nostdin -i "D:\TEMP FOLDER\iId_22_aid_0_lang_en_2023-12-17@04_04_31_1410_02.ac3" -t 00:03:00.760 -ac 6 -ar 48000 -f sox - | "C:\Program Files\Hybrid\64bit\sox.exe" --multi-threaded --temp "D:\TEMP FOLDER\2023-12-17@04_04_31_141004" --buffer 524288 -S -t sox - -b 32 -t sox - speed 0.96000000 | "C:\Program Files\Hybrid\64bit\ffmpeg.exe" -y -threads 8 -f sox -i - -b:a 320k -ar 48000 -channel_layout 5.1 "D:\TEMP FOLDER\iId_22_aid_0_lang_en_2023-12-17@04_04_31_1410_02.ac3"

FFmpeg aborts since 'Error opening input files: No such file or directory'
I see no reason which this happens since after the delaycut-call "D:\TEMP FOLDER\iId_21_aid_0_lang_en_2023-12-17@04_04_06_5110_02.ac3" existed (8.2749 MB).

Tried to reproduce this by calling:
[ode]
mkvextract tracks "C:\Users\Selur\Desktop\test.mkv" 1:"J:\tmp\iId_1_aid_0_lang_en_DELAY_-53ms_2023-12-17@19_09_38_2510_01.ac3"
ffmpeg -y -threads 8 -loglevel fatal -nostdin -i "J:\tmp\iId_1_aid_0_lang_en_DELAY_-53ms_2023-12-17@19_09_38_2510_01.ac3" -ac 6 -ar 48000 -f sox - | sox --multi-threaded --temp "J:\tmp\2023-12-17@19_09_38_251001" --buffer 524288 -S -t sox - -t wav - tempo 0.96000000 | neroAacEnc -br 128000 -ignorelength -if - -of "J:\tmp\iId_1_aid_0_lang_en_DELAY_-53ms_2023-12-17@19_09_38_2510_02.aac"
[/code]
and

mkvextract tracks "C:\Users\Selur\Desktop\test.mkv" 1:"J:\tmp\iId_2_aid_0_lang_en_2023-12-17@19_13_11_1910_01.ac3"
ffmpeg -y -threads 8 -loglevel fatal -nostdin -i "J:\tmp\iId_2_aid_0_lang_en_2023-12-17@19_13_11_1910_01.ac3" -ac 6 -ar 48000 -f sox - | sox --multi-threaded  --temp "J:\tmp\2023-12-17@19_13_11_191001" --buffer 524288 -S -t sox - -b 32 -t sox - tempo 0.96000000 | ffmpeg -y -threads 8 -f sox -i - -b:a 320k -ar 48000 -channel_layout 5.1 "J:\tmp\iId_2_aid_0_lang_en_2023-12-17@19_13_11_1910_02.ac3"

and

mkvextract tracks "C:\Users\Selur\Desktop\test.mkv" 1:"J:\tmp\iId_3_aid_0_lang_en_2023-12-17@19_17_57_6610_01.ac3"
ffmpeg -y -threads 8 -loglevel fatal -nostdin -i "J:\tmp\iId_3_aid_0_lang_en_2023-12-17@19_17_57_6610_01.ac3" -ac 6 -ar 48000 -f sox - | sox --multi-threaded  --temp "J:\tmp\2023-12-17@19_17_57_661001" --buffer 524288 -S -t sox - -b 32 -t sox - tempo 0.96000000 | ffmpeg -y -threads 8 -f sox -i - -c:a eac3 -b:a 320k -ar 48000 -channel_layout 5.1 "J:\tmp\iId_3_aid_0_lang_en_2023-12-17@19_17_57_6610_02.eac3"

all of these worked fine.

Note that delaycut wasn't used with the sample. (I did enable Audio->Misc->Fix input with delay cut)
So my guess atm. is that:
a. something is wrong with your source (which is not an issue with the sample) that triggers the usage of delaycut which causes problems.
b. alternatively for some reason the ac3 output of delaycut gets deleted.

=> can't reproduce the issue, so I can't fix it.

One filter setting that possible may fix this a/v sync issue is → SsRestore ...

?? sRestore does not change/influence a/v sync since frame rate&count are adjusted in the same way.

Cu Selur

[ToiletDuck]

=> can't reproduce the issue, so I can't fix it.


Cu Selur

So, you've been able to produce an succesfull 50/25fps => 24fps conversion ?  So, Playback is just fine ?

I have reset all hybrid settings to start all over again from scratch.. AC3 issue is fixed by doing that oddly, the AC3 encode is succesfull..  Only A/V stil not in sync ..!
If so, what are the main and important settings you have changed in hybrid to accomplish that ?


The sample i provided you, is coming from My original DVD PAL Collection / source you see... that i have encoded to that sample fyi..
Do you think the Deinterlace method might have done something wrong back then, that might cause this ?

I'll try the following next, audio / video encode seperately using other tools and merge them using yet another util... Curious for the results of that experiment..

Cheers,
TD

[Selur]

Haven't looked at the sync, since I only converted the audio and couldn't reproduce the problem you reported.

Cu Selur

[ToiletDuck]

Haven't looked at the sync, since I only converted the audio and couldn't reproduce the problem you reported.

Cu Selur

Yes, it's mainly the sync part sir sElur    . 
Therefor you have to watch it to check that part i guess..

Audio & video is present and fluid, only lipsync is the issue !

cheers,

---

Update:

There seems to be an delay when i try to convert the fps (Pal → Film) from the sample .. even though the A/V sounds and looks good watching it ..!

Though both tracks are alway's converted to match the same framerate when merged together...!  

Weird..

[Selur]

I'm still unsure what you want to do.
What you described so far does not make sense.

Atm. your source is sync at 50fps while every second frame seems to be a duplicate, so to me whatever you did to create this file seems wrong.
If you want to convert this to 24fps.
You could:
a. use sRestore to convert the video to 23.976fps by dropping enough frames until you reach that fps. Playback length stay the same and audio will stay sync, but you will drop non-duplicate frames.
or
b. use sRestore or SelectRangeEvery to convert the video 25fps by dropping just the duplicate frames, then change the playback speed of the video from 25 fps to 24fps. Since you changed the playback speed you also need to change the playback speed of the audio. If you changed both audio&video the output will be sync again.

What you described so far was that you used sRestore to go from 25fps to 23.976fps and additionally changed the playback speed, which does not make sense since it would change just the playback length of the audio and not the video and thus cause sync issue.

=> To me this seems like you don't understand what you are doing and the sync problem is you telling Hybrid to do stuff that does not make sense.

Cu Selur

[ToiletDuck]

I'm still unsure what you want to do.
What you described so far does not make sense.

Cu Selur

It's pretty simple.  I just want to convert Pal content to 24fps Film , that's it..!?

And i have succeeded doing that using another tool too Sir Selur..
Only difference is that i have succeeded using 25 > 23.976 instead of 25 >  24fps.  for some reason beyond me 25 > 24 Fps conversion doesn't work.
Not even using that tool!?

I have thought of duplicated frames aswell that might causing this...  So, i wos think in the line of using the following filter  "Remove IVTC dupe"  , right?

True, sRestore isn't the answer...


cheers,
td

[Selur]

Like I wrote either:
a. remove the duplicates, change audio&video playback speed.
or
b. remove the duplicates + additional frames, then just change the audio speed.

Cu Selur

[ToiletDuck]

Like I wrote either:
a. remove the duplicates, change audio&video playback speed.
or
b. remove the duplicates + additional frames, then just change the audio speed.

Cu Selur

Well, what's the best approach to do that ?  Interpolation = Adding / remove frames or... ? 
But than again, interpolation has the tendenc to create ghosting in frame transition !!

Any specific settings you have in mind?
i"ll figure it out eventually, but if you would advise me an specific setting it would speed up the process xD...


EDIT
Fyi: didn't need any additional filters just to convert 50 > 24fps in another tool i have tried !?!  Yes 24fps, does work aswell..  Only thing is i have to put in custom vallues myself, no presets !  That said, are dupes realy the cause of failed conversion iam asking myself ?

cheers
Td