25fps to 24fps sudden fail !

[Selur]

Well, what's the best approach to do that ? Interpolation = Adding / remove frames or... ?

Where does interpolation come into this? No clue why you would use that here.

Going from 50fps to 24fps no interpolation should be used.

But than again, interpolation has the tendenc to create ghosting in frame transition !!

frame transitions <- what do you mean if you say this.
If you mean scene changes, then yes if the interpolation method does not take scene changes into account (or isn't properly configured) you get artifacts.
I again am not sure what you are doing, but it sound just wrong.





If your source is 25fp without duplicates.
You should simply adjust the playback speed of audio&video. (this requires reencoding for the audio, for the video it's just changing a flag)

The clip you shared has 50fps with every second frame being a duplicate.
So you should use sRestore or SelectEveryRange to remove the duplicates and then treat the source as 25fps and proceeded like I described.


=> To me, it seems that you need to think about what audio and video sync means in relation to frame count and frame and audio playback speed.


Cu Selur

Ps: going to bed now, but you should first think about what you are doing a bit more before blindly doing stuff

[ToiletDuck]

Well, what's the best approach to do that ?  Interpolation = Adding / remove frames or... ?

Where does interpolation come into this? No clue why you would use that here.

Going from 50fps to 24fps no interpolation should be used.

Using interpolation means adding / removing frames to scale to outputs framerate , NO?  
So doing so might have solved this , since there's clearly an delay issue, caused by Video and/or Audio recode .. is it not ?

But than again, interpolation has the tendenc to create ghosting in frame transition !!

frame transitions <- what do you mean if you say this.
If you mean scene changes, then yes if the interpolation method does not take scene changes into account (or isn't properly configured) you get artifacts.
I again am not sure what you are doing, but it sound just wrong.

So you DO actually KNOW what i meant to say   
Iam exactly and litterally talking about blurred video playback a.k.a "ghosting" in horizontal camera movement - action scenes .. right?

And wheiter that is caused by scene changes or rumpelstiltskin diz duck doesn't give one rats arse about it   
My point is , i actually DO KNOW what iam writing about ...  to some extent   

Iam just not good with words, atleast not that specific mind you..

If your source is 25fp without duplicates.

You should simply adjust the playback speed of audio&video. (this requires reencoding for the audio, for the video it's just changing a flag)
The clip you shared has 50fps with every second frame being a duplicate.

  What do you think  i have been doing the whole time ?  Ofcourse it "SHOULD" be that simple, but nothing is further from the truth  !
I mean, when you talk about 25fps you talk about progresive (de-interlaced) content , right?  The same applies to my sample.. Granted it's 50 fps instead, but does that mean that de-interlacing ALWAYS certainly without an question produces duplicate frames as a cause of that ?

You sure about that ?

So you should use sRestore or SelectEveryRange to remove the duplicates and then treat the source as 25fps and proceeded like I described.
=> To me, it seems that you need to think about what audio and video sync means in relation to frame count and frame and audio playback speed.
Cu Selur
Ps: going to bed now, but you should first think about what you are doing a bit more before blindly doing stuff

Hmmm, where (a couple posts back) did i mentioned "sRestore" before   ...

Been there, done that... no sigar halas..

Ps: going to bed now, but you should first think about what you are doing a bit more before blindly doing stuff

There's one thing you don't quite to seem understand about me, i'm a doer not a nodder .
By the way, penicillin has been discovered by accident . 


cheers,
TD

---

Update:


finaly created succesfull conversion..And i have to correct myself, when i said sRestore isn't it..  It is infact the answer to this sollution ... → But playtime in mpc-hc is doubble of what it actually should be !
AND NO, before you go rampage over it...  Even though the playtime is a mess, the amount of frames is exactly the same as the source..  Wich should be the case , if iam not mistaken ...!

But the again, you have mentioned that sRestore is "broken" or KaPUT ... and if thats the only solution to my issue.. i guess diz duck is screwed, isn't it °^° !

play lenght mentioned in windows explorer is about right though    .. but not in mpc!
MediaInfo shows also the correct playtime... but mpc keeps on playing the media file past the end time..

And again, you haven't answered my question before... Using the sample i have upped, did you succesfully created a 50Fps => 24fps conversion that actually played in sync using hybrid ?  Whitout any issue at all?  i.e: sync, playtime..!

Anyway, since you are the smartest one arround here, i have another question for you..  
What framerate (sRestore & audio base settings) have i used to create an succesfull in → "Sync" playing sample you think   ?  Appart from the wrong duration time..  



cheers,

---

Update 2:

Found out what's causing the messed up duration time...  
Take a guess...    ..  show diz duck how realy realy Intelligent (without the Artificial part ) you are... 

[Selur]

Assuming you use the 50fps progressive source with the duplicates:
1. use sRestore, set it to 'linear' and 25fps as target
2. then set 'Change speed' to 23.976fps'
3. during audio conversion, set 'Speed Change' to 'from 25' and 'to 23.976' fps

If you take a source that is interlaced deinterlacing it won't create duplicates every frame, that only happens if you bob deinterlace a progressive source!
-> properly read: [INFO] Interlacing patterns

Iam exactly and litterally talking about blurred video playback a.k.a "ghosting" in horizontal camera movement - action scenes .. right?

sounds like you are mixing motion blur with ghosting/blends,...

Cu Selur

[ToiletDuck]

Assuming you use the 50fps progressive source with the duplicates:
1. use sRestore, set it to 'linear' and 25fps as target
2. then set 'Change speed' to 23.976fps'
3. during audio conversion, set 'Speed Change' to 'from 25' and 'to 23.976' fps

If you take a source that is interlaced deinterlacing it won't create duplicates every frame, that only happens if you bob deinterlace a progressive source!
-> properly read: [INFO] Interlacing patterns

If you knew, why didn't you say so sooner in the first place?  Instead of venting.. 

Anyway, i know you think lil of your users, but i already knew ↑ THAT lil fun FACT you've mentioned .  
That's exactly how i did it before you even posted this "solution".

And actually my goal wos to convert 25 → 24p ...

Iam exactly and litterally talking about blurred video playback a.k.a "ghosting" in horizontal camera movement - action scenes .. right?

sounds like you are mixing motion blur with ghosting/blends,...
Cu Selur

 
potato... potata... different spelling.  same animal / result  
I mean, the only difference is .. at one hand (known as ghosting usually) can be caused by slow pixel response time aswell...
But this isn't the case, yet using interpolation can look just as bad as ghosting effect ..


Anyway, can you guess why the duration wos twice aslong from the output file, and why the mediaplayer kept on playing the file without A & V (black screen)   ?
do you know what's causing that ↑ ?

I'm eagerly await your answer to that




Cheers,
Td

[Selur]

Anyway, can you guess why the duration wos twice aslong from the output file, and why the mediaplayer kept on playing the file without A & V (black screen) Shy ?
do you know what's causing that ↑ ?

sounds like some wrong fps flags, but could also be caused by subtitles with wrong timings.

[ToiletDuck]

Anyway, can you guess why the duration wos twice aslong from the output file, and why the mediaplayer kept on playing the file without A & V (black screen) Shy  ?
do you know what's causing that ↑ ?

sounds like some wrong fps flags, but could also be caused by subtitles with wrong timings.

by "wrong fps flags" i asume you meant to say, fps flagged at doubble the rate of what it's supposed to be ?  for example 25fps flagged as 50fps, or any other fps other than what it supposed to be that may cause this?

If so, whats causing this encode..or ?

Subtitles timings can actually cause this   ?  
Never have had that before due to messed up subtitles , and trust me i have had plenty playback oddities in the past that was caused by subtitles..


cheers,

[Selur]

Subtitles timings can actually cause this Dodgy ?

Yes, subtitle and chapter settings can both cause that you see a black screen while the video already finished.
Basically any stream can extend the play length.

Without details, I can't say anything more specific.

Cu Selur

[ToiletDuck]

Subtitles timings can actually cause this  Dodgy ? 

Yes, subtitle and chapter settings can both cause that you see a black screen while the video already finished.
Basically any stream can extend the play length.

Without details, I can't say anything more specific.

Cu Selur

Let me ease your mind .. it's not caused by subs or any other content.. 
It's caused by *DING DING* → the type of container i have used 

Yep, it looks like your old friend "tsmux/m2ts" is throwing a spanner in the works again... 
using other containers : mkv, mp4... seems to fix this .. 

Though the framerate wos flagged right of the messed up media file accordingly to mediainfo among others ..

So and again, something isn't working right about TSmux and Hybrid..  

Merging files containing atmos tracks results in crashes using tsmux, now this again also caused by TSMUX... Can't be coincidence if you ask me..

  
But who am i...  iam only speaking the wrong thing at the wrong time... isn't it 

cheers,
td

[Selur]

Assuming Hybrid does properly create the .meta file, it's a tsMuxeR bug, otherwise, it's a bug in Hybrid.
Setting speed change here does seem to create a proper .meta file, so I suspect it's a bug in tsMuxeR.
For example: (when slowing down 25fps to 12.5fps)

V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC, "J:\tmp\2023-12-18@19_40_54_2710_01.265", fps=12.5, insertSEI, contSPS, ar=1:1 (Square)

Cu Selur

Ps.: if the stream itself if wrongly flagged and the container is flagged correctly some players might use the wrong flag from the stream.

[ToiletDuck]

Assuming Hybrid does properly create the .meta file, it's a tsMuxeR bug, otherwise, it's a bug in Hybrid.
Setting speed change here does seem to create a proper .meta file, so I suspect it's a bug in tsMuxeR.
For example: (when slowing down 25fps to 12.5fps)

V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC, "J:\tmp\2023-12-18@19_40_54_2710_01.265", fps=12.5, insertSEI, contSPS, ar=1:1 (Square)

Cu Selur

Ps.: if the stream itself if wrongly flagged and the container is flagged correctly some players might use the wrong flag from the stream.

If you don't mind me saying, but you asume allot Sir Selur.. Just like you asumed , i don't know what iam doing remember 

I mean let's look at the facts... If it's truly an tsmux bug, i shouldn't be able to merge the seperated A/V + other tracks to a working M2TS file using tsmux gui , right?
Thats FACTUAL ↑ 

I have tested your suspicions by keeping the encoded files hybrid produced... and manually muxed it myself to m2ts with succes using tsmux gui.. 

1500 frames are basicaly 60 seconds for an 25fps rated media file... now... Total amount frames / framerate ..= answer.. or rather should be..



cheers,
td